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10 responses to “The End of the World”

• 

  nopew
  July 5th, 2012 at 09:04

  As I’ve said, I’ve appreciated this, too.
  As I understand life with Jesus we need each other, for learning and correction.
  We agree that more people should be more aware of the more and more that evil is up to.

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• 

  thetruthisstrangerthanfiction
  July 4th, 2012 at 23:12

  Well, thank you for taking the time to engage in this discussion, I really do appreciate just being able to talk about these things with someone… I admit that in the last couple of years, as I’ve gone through the process of having my eyes opened to the reality that “this world is the realm of the Evil One”, it has been rather overwhelming at times, and it definitely can feel difficult to know just where that “line” might be, between the events and developments that have been “schemed” by the Enemy, and the ones that are just symptomatic of our overall basic fallen nature…

  Maybe we’re not supposed to worry about where that line exactly is. I have a tendency to learn about something “new”, and then want to “study” it in an almost obsessive manner. I already sort of did that with my whole “detox” process of stepping away from the institutional church. It was all I talked about at times. But I guess now, it’s just been sort of humbling, to have been pulled back, and made to look at an even “bigger picture”, one that incorporates elements which actually seem compartively much more alarming than the pitfalls of something like institutionalism…

  It’s a lot to “process”, in other words… Thanks for helping me continue to try and do that. I’m sorry that I got kinda defensive. Just talking to you about all this really has been an encouragement. Thx again.

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• 

  nopew
  July 4th, 2012 at 09:16

  Whoa!! I apologize profusely. I thought I was just contributing more perspective on this issue, but never intended to make it sound like I was discounting you!!!
  We agree that this world is the realm of the Evil One, who is called the Great Deceiver, and in Revelation Apollyon/Abaddon (Destroyer).
  I only wanted to say that some good is being done, and not every invasion, or every war, has to be demon-inspired, as God has been known to resort to military solutions (though we may have trouble with that notion).
  So I accept full responsibility for any misunderstanding you have sensed. I stay in dialogue because we agree on the insidious techniques of Satan, and how easily people are duped — and it causes me pain. 1 John 4:1-3, testing the spirits, should be standard practice for Christians, but we trust in people, especially influential people, contrary to Psalm 118:8-9 (for only one example).

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• 

  thetruthisstrangerthanfiction
  July 4th, 2012 at 00:22

  At this stage I feel as though we are now talking past one another, or at least, I feel as though I am talking past you…

  I really don’t know how at this point you could be interpreting the totality of what I’ve been trying to describe thus far as having any true resemblance to the kind of “end of the world theology” as described by something like the Left Behind series. If my belief in any sort of “cataclysmic” conclusion to this period of history means that I will effectively be lumped in with everything else that would fall under such a vague description, then I must say that is rather frustrating. It is also frustrating that despite my best efforts to spell out just exactly “who” is I believe to be behind things like the 9/11 attacks, it seems that perhaps I am somehow still not being specific enough. I am not talking about the “motives of the American government”, but rather merely people IN the American government, and your government, and the French government, and Australia, Britain, Germany, etc., etc., etc., etc……

  The people who blew up the 9/11 towers were not merely some secretive group of “greedy Americans” who pulled off another instance of false-flag terrorism (it has been done before) just to have an excuse to go to war, in order to sell more tanks or missiles or whatever else.

  They are Luciferian globalists… They are not interested in simply implanting “American ideals” on other nations, or making more money. They basically have two goals, achieving “godhood”, and bringing about a one-world system, a “New World Order”…. America is really only just one more tool in Satan’s toolbox in this endeavor, a stepping stone towards something that would far supercede it. Some people refer to these individuals as the “Illuminati”. They have actually been being manipulated and used by Satan for generations, going back hundreds (if not thousands) of years. They have actually played rather significant roles in the revolutions and creations of many modern countries, most notably, OURS. You may see 9/11 as really not much more than a moment of “American trauma”, I see as really only one more step in what has been a very long and drawn out progression towards the fulfillment of what Alice Bailey called “the externalization of the hierarchy”…

  I would obviously disagree with you on this notion that America invented the idea of a catastrophic Last Days. America did not invent the words which Jesus speaks in Matthrew 24. HE HIMSELF is where the idea came from! It is certainly not merely some culturally-derived fantasy, cooked up by a few over-dramatic yankee preachers….

  You keep pointing back to the apostles and the Early Church, as though I am look to anyone else as an example! (Do you really think my viewpoint has that much in common with the average televangelist on TV? Oh dear!) Maybe you think what I’m talking about is just totally nuts. I can understand that. Not that long ago, I would’ve pretty much written the “NWO” or the “Illuminati” as nothing more than the wild imaginations of people who’d watched too many movies. But what does the scriptures say? What did those early disciples believe?

  “For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms…”

  I heard that verse so many times growing up in Sunday School and such, and it was always something that I guess was basically just interpreted as more or less empty metaphor. At least that’s how it was treated in practice. But I have come to understand that in fact the Bible means exactly what it says. (imagine that!) There are “rulers” of the spiritual realm, and they actually DO have power over this “dark world”, in a very real, and tangible way.

  When Satan tempted Jesus in the desert, how could the devil have offered to give Jesus “all the kingdoms of the world”? (Jesus didn’t dispute that satan could do that, He only rebuked him with scripture…) Satan could offer them, because he does indeed “rule” them. He rules them now from the “spiritual realm”, but his intent is to one-day rule directly through his own false messiah. The “god of this world” in the flesh… The antichrist. Currently, satan and his demons interact with the world of men and women through the various methods of the occult. That is what occultism is really all about, interaction with the spiritual (demonic) realms. Such occult dynamics provided the real, underlying motivations and concepts which were fleshed out by the Nazis in WWII. They didn’t think up all that stuff about “Aryan races” and all the rest, it came straight from the occult! At it’s highest levels, the Nazi SS were performing rituals and engaging in ancient “magic” (what the bible calls sorcery) It is real. People really do talk to demons (and those demons talk back!). They really believe them to be “gods” or “ascended masters” or “aliens” or whatever else. There really is such a thing as “psychic” ability, ESP, “astral travel”, “automatic writing” and on and on. But it is not at all what the practioners of these crafts believe it to be. It is all demonic. Demons really can give people what appears to be “powers”, but in reality they are really just opening up their body and spirit to lying demonic forces. This is crucial to understanding how Satan has been at work in the affairs of men throughout all of history. How do you think all those “pagan greeks and Romans” came up with their pantheons of “gods”, and all the temples and rituals that went with it? They were worshipping demonic beings (as the bible declares…) And the same is happening today, although obviously not out in the “open”. (that is why they have historically been refered to as the “mystery religions”…) It’s what is at the core of all so-called “esoteric knowledge”. Satan presents himself as an “angel of light”, as the one who brings “enlightenment”. He is real. He is not more powerful than Christ of course, but he DOES have a “kingdom”, and his many occult adepts (which are compartmentalized into countless different segments and branches) are certainly not interested in keeping their “church” seperate from the “state”! But it is done by infiltration, by hiding behind a veil of secularism.

  Well, I’m sure I could go on and on, but that’s already way too long. If nothing else, I at least hope that now you can understand where I’m coming from more accurately before you dismiss it all. I’m sure it sounds totally nuts. But hey, that’s where I’m at… All I can say is that I sure didn’t reach these conclusions merely by riding the wave of popular sentiment in American church culture. (I actually happen to think most American church-goers are some of the most blind and confused of all…) I have experienced a great deal which God has put together and used towards opening my eyes to the reality of what is going on the world. Coming to an understanding the problems with religious institutionalism was only a piece of a much bigger “puzzle”. Not that it’s like a puzzle that you have to “solve”, but I just mean that there are many “dimensions” to what is going on, both figuratively and literally (the spiritual “dimension” is quite real, tho most Christians don’t seem to fully grasp this…)

  Anyways. That’s all… Talk to you later, unless you now think I’m just too cuckoo!

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• 

  nopew
  July 3rd, 2012 at 21:14

  Well, one thing one must do is be vigilant, true. Another is avoid cultural deceptions. For instance, as I read, “end of the world theology” originated in the USA. European scholars interpreted those sections differently.
  Also, 9/11 is an American trauma. Even though many Canadians died in the collapse of the towers, our cultural identity was not shaken. Canada has been a peace-keeping nation since the 1970’s with a track record in Cyprus, the Sinai, and more. There may indeed be a conspiracy around the many American invasions (from small island, Vietnam, Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan…) and what many see as a global infiltration economically, but the motives of the US government cannot be incautiously implanted on other nations. View the French denunciation of the Iraq invasion.
  So, political intrigues have existed since, well, since politics started. If one uses the theology of Revelation, Daniel, Ezekiel and Zechariah being historical telescopes into the future it is possible to be deceived into thinking of Jesus’ return as political, with all the horrors of the American movies like “Left Behind”. As one trained in history and Bible I find that view rests on thin ice. Now, amillenialism, which tried to formalize that, pretty much died with the Second World War, so I reject that view which turns the end into fantasy.
  But surely the disciples are better models than infamous media preachers of today, most of whom are also American. The disciples of the first century invested everything into the Good News, nothing into storing up treasures on earth, whether political power, economic retirement funds or institutional structures. All the disciples were front-line workers. None were bureaucrats. Even the deacons, charged with the money matters of the early church, were avid evangelists (eg. Stephen).
  I have persisted in keeping a distinction between faith and politics. For a Canadian that is relatively easy, as we are minor players globally. But the tensions between “good neighbours” Canada and the USA, on economic issues, things like Cuba, sovereignty of the Arctic, mean that as a nation we are not simply “yes speakers” to everything Washington demands.
  The irony is 19% of Canadians are church-goers, 40% of Americans are. Spiritually Canada needs the US, but theologically the US needs Canada.
  Let me put it simply, 9/11 saw the world as it was come to an end for the USA. In a country where politics and religion are “legally” separated they intermingle, in practice, a lot. Culturally the US sees the end of the world as a violent event. In Canada we see it as a collapse of the planet, formerly by atomic war, now by environmental catastrophe.
  Biblically, the angel said Jesus he would return as he left, no violence, no natural disaster. At the right time Jesus would just come.
  Kinda makes one think…

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• 

  thetruthisstrangerthanfiction
  July 3rd, 2012 at 17:00

  Interesting… While such sentiments certainly put a much more humanitarian spin on things, unfortunately it really doesn’t line up with the facts. The U.S. led coalition started bombing Afghanastan on Oct. 7, 2001. The reason? 9-11. No 9/11 = no Afghan War. Period. (and quite arguably, no Iraq war either…)

  Did the Taliban really deprive men, women and children of their basic human rights? Absolutely. Is it good that they are now getting things like schools and hospitals and roads? Of course. But that isn’t why Western countries sent our armies over there…

  You said, “but power-mongers use a legitimate act to twist people into pliant dupes”. I would, unfortunately, have to phrase it differently, more along the lines of “Power-mongers use pliant dupes, in order to twist their actions into appearing legitimate”.

  I have no beef with people who simply want to “serve their country” or see the living standards of those in foreign countries raised. What I do have a problem with however is the fact that the official 9/11 story is a complete sham. That original act of “terrorism”, which has precipitated so much after it, was not an attack from abroad, but from “within”…

  The thing is, for all of the “good” infrastructure (schools, roads, etc.) that has been brought about in places like Afghanistan, there has been even more decidedly BAD “infrastructure” (data centers, government surveillance, secret prisons, etc.) built in our own country and around the world. Do I claim to know exactly what the “timeline” is, and exactly what it all means? No, but one thing is for sure, all of this is not just more of the same old political games and tragedy of war. It is sinister. Not just because of the innocent lives lost, but because of the almost unimaginable level of deception that has been achieved….

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• 

  nopew
  July 3rd, 2012 at 16:12

  Easy, Canadian troops went to Afghanistan to defend women, children and victims against a system (in this case mostly Taliban) which aimed to destroy people. Our troops fought and died doing that, building infrastructure (including schools that allow women/girls), medical and economic bases, and now are training Afghans to be good police and honorable soldiers.

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• 

  thetruthisstrangerthanfiction
  July 3rd, 2012 at 12:04

  (I am curious as to what exactly you mean by the term “legitimate act”…)

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• 

  nopew
  July 3rd, 2012 at 08:45

  Right, be alert to the Deceiver and the False Prophet (a religious figure) pulling the same stunt as in Eden, appealing to people’s lust to “be like God” and abandon obedience to God. So, the timeline matters not, the effect and events that could deceive even the elect, maybe, matters much. Yes, the wars on terrorism are at one level real (my family have served in Afghanistan), but power-mongers use a legitimate act to twist people into pliant dupes. Since we don’t know the day or the hour we are to stand ready all the time. That failure in that area opens institutions to the deception that their power and authority over others is legitimate!!
  To me the issue remains, “Study to show yourself approved to God”, not religion, political convenience or personal lust, following anyone who will “tickle their ears”, as the King James Version translates it.

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• 

  thetruthisstrangerthanfiction
  July 2nd, 2012 at 21:30

  I’m not really worried about what might be happening in a thousand years, I’m still trying to reconcile myself with what is actually happening right NOW! 🙂

  I do agree that so much wasted effort and energy has gone into debating dates and times and gogs and magogs and deciphering which nation is represented by which metal in the statue from Daniel’s dream, etc., etc.! You’re right, so much of the time it is really, sadly, just about the latest end-time guru selling his latest book…

  But at the same time, I believe that there is also a certain amount of global perceptiveness involved in the broader call to “stand firm and never give up”. In Matthew 24, Jesus is warning BELIEVERS to be aware of the birth pangs, the signs of the times. We are warned, not so much because of the prospect of physical trial or danger, but because of the reality of the Great Deception. “For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you ahead of time.” (vs. 24,25)

  Verse 42 says, “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”

  So although we shouldn’t waste time trying to pin down the exact day or hour (since only the Father knows that), we ARE told to “keep watch”. Why? Because we should not be so careless as to assume that we ourselves are beyond being deceived…

  But isn’t this all still a bunch of conjecture? Isn’t it still really just pointless debate over stuff that’s gonna happen how it happens, regardless of what we say today? Shouldn’t we just invest our time, like you say, in things like serving the poor?

  Well, I live in a country which is (officially) involved in two wars, in Iraq and Afghanastan. Both of these wars have been waged based on the premise that some very dangerous individuals hijacked four airplanes and crashed them into some rather inconveniant places. Those events have also served as the catalyst for a whole host of legislative changes, granting unprecedented power to what is effectively a globally-dominant government, with practically no real accountability. This is all “politics” of course. What is not “politics” are the belief-systems held by those who are ACTUALLY responsible for those inconveniant plane crashes. They are not muslim terrorists, but in fact Luciferian occultists. The global “war on terror” (which your country is taking part in, I believe) is a farce. Much of the world has already been deceived, and is happily going along it’s way. It is not about stopping the “axis of evil”. It is not ultimately about oil, or money, or power even. It is about something much bigger. It is actually related to that funny looking picture of a pyramid with an eye on the back of our country’s one-dollar bill. It is about centuries of preparation, to make the way for their own, humanistic “messiah”. This stuff matters, not because of the fear of things like financial collapse, or material difficulty, real as those things may be, but because the coming RELIGION of these people, is nothing other than the occult itself. There will come a time when we will not be allowed to simply mind our own business, serve the poor, demand justice, and be left alone. There will be a time when we will have to open our eyes to what is happening, and ignore the advice of so many around us, and forsake an entire global system because of it’s connection to the Fallen Cherub. This will not be a mere “political” decision, but one that most definitely has eternal consequences…

  I believe the “Great Deception” has already begun, and that most people are completely unaware (that’s why it’s called “deception”!) If that is really true, then I have a hard time just shrugging it off as inconsequential debate. I think most likely, the majoirty of the “christian” institutions, (which you and I both agree are not prescribed by scripture), will eventually serve as vehicles through which the global, ecunmenical, occultic religion will be disseminated. Such a thing is a sad thought indeed, and I would probably be inclined to dismiss it as more abstract conjecture, if I had not already seen it happening on so many occasions…..

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